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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch

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Post by dean on Sat May 02, 2020 1:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

As evidence the WHO did not even recommend masks except for the sick. There is not one peer reviewed document showing it is. And the outbreak would be much more severe.

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Post by dean on Sat May 02, 2020 1:15 pm

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data
Filed Under: COVID-19
Lisa M Brosseau, ScD, and Margaret Sietsema, PhD  | Apr 01, 2020
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wearing_masks_on_a_train.jpg
People wearing masks on a train
Vergani_Fotografia / iStock
Dr. Brosseau is a national expert on respiratory protection and infectious diseases and professor (retired), University of Illinois at Chicago.
Dr. Sietsema is also an expert on respiratory protection and an assistant professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

__________________________https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data


Last edited by dean on Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by dean on Sat May 02, 2020 1:11 pm

the argument of facemasks.     ,, they missed a few things in this research, one being it increased a person to believe they are secure so they spend more time out.   And stores are not happy with people hanging out, a letter from costco home depot employees say shop fast get out.   The employees are at larger risk the longer you think you are now safe so you stay longer.    Next this happened with me, they do note the education issue but missed a huge point,  people belive that the means of transmission is airborne when they have to use a mask, when the real culprit is touching what an infected person touched.      This was directly brought to my attention with a 14 year old child who told me I was wrong because they are telling everyone to wear masks.   This rationalization is from human factors people can visualize the cough with smell, someone releases gas and you can smell it through the entire room.   Hense a child and or not scientific person will only believe in facemasks and then clean their hands less.    In this case, she believed she could touch me and not wash her hands as much.    I find these researchers at Cambridge very lacking when they know that not one study ever done shows airborne is the transmission mechanism.  

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/cambridge-coronavirus-widespread-cloth-face-mask-covid-19/

There are three general arguments frequently presented against broad general use of face masks: there is no evidence they protect a person from contracting the virus, mass adoption takes valuable resources away from frontline healthcare workers, and they instill a false sense of security in the wearer, resulting in reduced adherence to other important hygiene measures.


The editorial does note prior research investigating real-world mask use in regards to influenza transmission found masks confer “no significant protection.” However, many of the arguments for mask wearing suggest the point of advocating broad mask use is about limiting transmission from those unaware they are infected, instead of acting as a protective measure for healthy subjects.

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Post by dean on Sat May 02, 2020 1:08 pm

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/10/829890635/why-there-so-many-different-guidelines-for-face-masks-for-the-public

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/331693/WHO-2019-nCov-IPC_Masks-2020.3-eng.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y


no link for next one... 1 trillion dollars to prove it...

Quotable: Dr. Michael Osterholm, at the University of Minnesota, said he had no doubt that the six-foot distance would clearly “reduce the number of droplets you come in contact with.” But, he added: “The question is what does it take for you to get infected? And that I think is the trillion-dollar question.”

here is the link
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/briefing/us-news-today.html


Last edited by dean on Wed May 13, 2020 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by dean on Sat May 02, 2020 1:03 pm

I have said from the get go this is not airborn transmission .   I cited airplanes as not being overrun with all passengers getting sick and second the bus example (4 hour closed windows and not wearing masks and the people near the infected did not but some in the middle of the bus did.  and as noted WHO did not recommend masks.  And that there is one single article in all these years that viruses are airborn for transmission.  Ya you do not want a sick person coughing on ya.    the Chicago one where those the infected hugged at the wedding all got sick except one, and apparently no one else at the wedding did.   Still not one study showing airborne is able to show it.  

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-virus-causing-covid-19-implications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations?fbclid=IwAR3SPvG06ygdU9Zbmwx6sUfnBjiRJQ9uoU-LVcArLhJD8acZ7sh6EoOHrdg

This version updates the 27 March publication by providing definitions of droplets by particle size and adding three relevant publications.

Modes of transmission of the COVID-19 virus
Respiratory infections can be transmitted through droplets of different sizes: when the droplet particles are >5-10 μm in diameter they are referred to as respiratory droplets, and when then are <5μm in diameter, they are referred to as droplet nuclei.1 According to current evidence, COVID-19 virus is primarily transmitted between people through respiratory droplets and contact routes.2-7 In an analysis of 75,465 COVID-19 cases in China, airborne transmission was not reported.8

Mechanisms by Which Ambient Humidity May Affect Viruses in Aerosols
Wan Yang*,*
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3457514/?fbclid=IwAR3CQ0qW2BRtjwjlzx09w3bP8ewiui0r2gmoEQmakKNJuHRmZVbTmAHBcB0

here is a general one dealing with airflow
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7141890/

some viruses dies fast
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021850212001036?fbclid=IwAR126Aa6d4AKJhx9APhKWx2C_MMVqP1-_JJlCYFtOHTw3pkDQP9lh35dz9M

research called off  
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/29/847948272/why-the-u-s-government-stopped-funding-a-research-project-on-bats-and-coronaviru
Why The U.S. Government Stopped Funding A Research Project On Bats And Coronaviruses

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Post by dean on Sat May 02, 2020 1:02 pm

I believe this is a great example of how it is not airborne.     and how difficult it is to get it.       Here is a cruise ship  that had a case obviously they could not test and either could the hospital they dropped the Italian off at before getting to Florida to pick up more passengers, it holds 2200 to 2,800  passengers.         After departing florida 3 days later they drop of several sick passengers in PR still not knowing if it was corona virus for many more days to come .    Here is a guests video of the partying that took place the close eating and so on.   And you can even hear people coughing very heavily in the background in a closed area with many people in the area.      Also note these appear all to be 50 yo and older.    And when they were flown on a charter back to the USA  to atlanta the 600 americans and canadians we at the time checked for fever and if no fever were than allowed to go to other commercial  flights to their homes.         And again how many were asymptomatic and we did not see a huge death rate from that ship even with the higher age risk group and the flights people were not and still are not reporting sickness from those flight that took the people home.  

If it was as easy to catch from airborn everyone would have been sick getting off that boat and when they were flying instead of the dreaded 2 persons infected a day it would have been 20-200 infected on an airplane.    Would be astronomical numbers.       Watch this video.   amazingly reported only 15 have died  considering all were of the higherst risk age groups and the partying that went on in ultra close range, if airborne they would have all had it.      

https://www.wsj.com/video/cruise-ship-partied-on-as-coronavirus-spread/7EDE1FAB-FFED-4F95-872A-D7EB22F3F74F.html

Cruise Ship Partied On as Coronavirus Spread    
Jennifer Catron boarded Carnival’s Costa Luminosa on March 5 for a transatlantic cruise. Her video diaries provide a window into life on board the ship as the coronavirus scare became a full-blown pandemic.


wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Luminosa
Incidents
Coronavirus pandemic
See also: 2020 coronavirus pandemic on cruise ships § Costa Luminosa
On 2020.02.29, a 68-year-old Italian man in critical condition was transferred from Costa Luminosa to a hospital in the Cayman Islands due to heart issues.[16] On 2020.03.12, the Health Services Authority of the Cayman Islands announced that the man was their first confirmed coronavirus case.[17][18] His death was announced two days later.[16][19]

On 5 March 2020 the vessel left Fort Lauderdale for a transatlantic cruise. Two people disembarked with symptoms of the coronavirus in Puerto Rico. Subsequently, on 13 March 2020, it was confirmed to be due to coronavirus disease 2019 – the first known cases in Puerto Rico.[20] One of the two persons died several days later. Because of the virus outbreak several sick passengers were left at Tenerife and passengers were placed under quarantine in their rooms. The ship was not allowed to dock in Spain. It docked at Marseille, France, discharging sick passengers who flew home distributing the virus,[19] and went to Savona where the rest of the passengers were disembarked on 23 March, many of them sick.[21] After the disembarkation at Marseille, French authorities confirmed 36 people with COVID-19 infection.[22] On 21 March local news in Puerto Rico reported the death of the quarantined Italian woman.[23] On 7 April 2020, A Miami lawyer filed a lawsuit against the Costa Cruises over mishandling and allowing passengers to sail Costa Luminosa despite having flu-like symptoms.[24]


here is another note about Carnival cruise.   Seems the owner is a friend of trumps and is on the task force to re-open the country.    Shows how the company has cut corners many times with huge fines.    Yep thats they type of business leader we need helping the world.    

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-carnival-cruise-coronavirus/

dean

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Post by dean on Sat May 02, 2020 1:02 pm

As evidence the WHO did not even recommend masks except for the sick. There is not one peer reviewed document showing it is. And the outbreak would be much more severe.

dean

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