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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch

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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

As evidence the WHO did not even recommend masks except for the sick. There is not one peer reviewed document showing it is. And the outbreak would be much more severe.

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Post by dean Tue May 12, 2020 5:21 pm

Ok here is a great example, 300-400 people drove 2 hours for a Texas high school state play off basketball game game where there is lots of yelling .   and only 3 people from that town/county to date got sick in 2 months.     If airborne it would have nailed so many at that incident location.    

https://news.yahoo.com/became-real-became-alive-coronavirus-105817855.html  



The basketball game
B’Anna Scroggins, her husband, Billy, and their friends packed into the Texan Dome at South Plains College on Friday, March 6, wearing their black and gold Vega Longhorns T-shirts. The regional basketball tournament had drawn a large crowd to watch the high school boys teams battle it out for a chance to go to the state finals.

The tournament was almost two hours away, but that’s what Vega residents do – support their students, even when their own kids have graduated or don’t play sports.

“The whole town was there,” said Shaye Pingel Warner, one of B’Anna’s best friends. “I bet there were 300-400 people there from our side. Probably more.”  



The threat of the disease spreading into Oldham County remains ever present. While the number of confirmed COVID-19 cases is still three, the rural county is surrounded by areas with far more cases.

Potter County, home of Amarillo and directly east of Oldham County, has about 1,000 cases of the virus. Nearby Moore County has more than 400 and Randall County has about 300.

Many Oldham residents commute to work in Amarillo or other cities, which means more cases could show up.

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Post by dean Wed May 06, 2020 8:43 pm

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=5ae25bc7_2#:~:text=Data%20from%20published%20epidemiology%20and,contaminated%20objects%20and%20surfaces.


https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-spreads-transmission-routes.html

How are people being infected with COVID-19?
By Tia Ghose - Assistant Managing Editor a month ago

We still don't fully understand how the new coronavirus spreads, but we're learning more every day.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/01/how-coronavirus-spreads-on-a-plane/

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/contagious-illness-flu-planes


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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:34 pm

here is another example where way more people should have been sick if airborne.

https://wgnradio.com/news/how-coronavirus-spread-through-a-birthday-and-a-funeral-in-chicago/


Complete coverage | CDC resources | Illinois Department of Public Health | City of Chicago

How coronavirus spread through a birthday and a funeral in Chicago
NEWS

by: Nexstar Media Wire

Posted: Apr 8, 2020 / 10:28 PM CDT / Updated: Apr 8, 2020 / 10:28 PM CDT

CHICAGO, ILLINOIS – MARCH 26: A Chicago Cubs fan wearing protective gear walks past a statue of the late long-time sportscaster Harry Caray outside of Wrigley Field on what was to be opening day for Major League Baseball on March 26, 2020 in Chicago, Illinois. Major League Baseball has postponed the start of its season indefinitely due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak. (Photo by Scott Olson/Getty Images)

CHICAGO (NEXSTAR) – One person who attended a birthday and a funeral in Chicago earlier this year likely left 16 people infected with coronavirus, three of whom died, according to a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study.

The gatherings happened about three days apart, before social distancing policies were implemented. The cases (seven confirmed and nine probable) range in age from 5 to 86 years old.

The first patient, labeled A1.1, had recently traveled out of state and had some mild respiratory symptoms, but decided to attend the funeral of a friend anyway. He hadn’t been tested at the time and didn’t know he had COVID-19, which investigators later confirmed.

The evening before the funeral, he spent about three hours with family members of the deceased friend, eating a “potluck-style” meal from common serving dishes. When he said his goodbyes, he expressed his condolences and hugged the other people at the dinner, according to the CDC.


(CDC)
Two of the family members started to experience COVID-19 symptoms between two and four days later, one of whom later died. A third developed suspected COVID-19 symptoms six days after the funeral.

The next day at the funeral, A1.1 had close contact with a fourth person, who later visited the sick family member in the hospital. That person embraced the family member without any protective gear and later developed a fever and cough believed to be from the novel coronavirus.

Three days after the funeral, still experiencing symptoms, patient A1.1 went to a birthday party attended by nine other family members. A1.1 embraced everyone at the party and shared food during a three-hour span.

Seven people at the party got sick, two of whom later died despite being placed on ventilators. A home care nurse and another family member developed COVID-19 after taking care of one of the patients without using protective gear. The family member is then believed to have passed it to a home contact who didn’t go to the party.

Several days after the birthday, three of the family members went to church while experiencing symptoms; at least one person at the service who touched the same offering plate and sat one row away developed confirmed COVID-19.

The study shows how quickly COVID-19 can spread through a community, and, the CDC points out, doesn’t include any potential cases of asymptomatic infection.

“Overall, these findings highlight the importance of adhering to current social distancing recommendations, including guidance to avoid any gatherings with persons from multiple households and follow state or local stay-at-home orders,” the CDC says in the report.
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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:26 pm



though we know there were people that got it from this wedding, less than a handful it appears. you would think if airborne most would have caught it but appears only a handful.

Covid-19 positive  with 200 guests at a wedding in Los Cabos

https://metropolimx.com/avanza-pandemia-de-coronavirus-en-bcs-1-6-casos-por-dia-en-los-cabos/

Coronavirus pandemic progresses in BCS: 1.6 cases per day! in Los Cabos
https://metropolimx.com/positivo-de-covid-19-convivio-con-200-invitados-en-una-boda-en-los-cabos/


They cancel flights to San José del Cabo, La Paz, Loreto and Cabo San Lucas

https://metropolimx.com/cancelan-vuelos-a-san-jose-del-cabo-la-paz-loreto-y-cabo-san-lucas/


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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:20 pm

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

Report of the WHO-China Joint Mission
on Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


Routes of transmission

COVID-19 is transmitted via droplets and fomites during close unprotected contact between
an infector and infectee. Airborne spread has not been reported for COVID-19 and it is not
believed to be a major driver of transmission based on available evidence; however, it can
be envisaged if certain aerosol-generating procedures are conducted in health care facilities.
Fecal shedding has been demonstrated from some patients, and viable virus has been
identified in a limited number of case reports. However, the fecal-oral route does not
appear to be a driver of COVID-19 transmission; its role and significance for COVID-19
remains to be determined. Viral shedding is discussed in the Technical Findings (Annex C)
My add in China they found a patient had taken a long bus ride maybe 8 hours, the trackers got the bus film and located all the people on the bus and found very few of them were sick, the infected person was in the back of the bus and one person in the middle of the bus isle seat fot sick and only the people close to him tested positive.   So it is not as easily transmitted by air as one would envision.      Also if it was that easy entire planeloads would always be succumbing to flus yet I rarely get sick when flying and no one would fly if it was found it was that easy to be infected.  From this article, it also notes that 78-85% is family spread.

Household transmission
In China, human-to-human transmission of the COVID-19 virus is largely occurring in
families. The Joint Mission received detailed information from the investigation of clusters
and some household transmission studies, which are ongoing in a number of Provinces.
Among 344 clusters involving 1308 cases (out of a total 1836 cases reported) in Guangdong
Province and Sichuan Province, most clusters (78%-85%) have occurred in families.
Household transmission studies are currently underway, but preliminary studies ongoing in
Guangdong estimates the secondary attack rate in households ranges from 3-10%.

and lastly, when studying the H1N1 it was found that there was a 30% drop in spreading when schools were closed.    So I conclude the following, a person in a house gets it, they may be asymptomatic, the entire family gets it, the person with a job goes to work and co-workers who are in close proximity toch something that person touches, like he hands them a pen, they water cooler button, , coffee pot handle, elevator button.      That person goes home and gets their family sick by door know to home, the child gets infected and is asymptomatic and goes to school and during gym gets hit in the face with a ball and throws it and another catches it and that child thows it and so on so all the kids get it.    They take it home and again the entire family gets it.    mom or dad go to work and it goes and goes.

bus example
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3074351/coronavirus-can-travel-twice-far-official-safe-distance-and-stay

These findings, from a group of official researchers from Hunan province investigating a cluster case, challenge the advice from health authorities around the world that people should remain apart at a “safe distance” of one to two metres (three to six and a half feet).
Their work was based on a local outbreak case on January 22 during the peak Lunar New Year travel season. A passenger, known as “A”, boarded a fully booked long-distance coach and settled down on the second row from the back.
The passenger already felt sick at that point but it was before China had declared the coronavirus outbreak a national crisis, so “A” did not wear a mask, nor did most of the other passengers or the driver on the 48-seat bus.
Several passengers became infected during the four-hour bus journey.
Several passengers became infected during the four-hour bus journey.
China requires closed circuit television cameras to be installed on all long-distance buses, which provided valuable footage for researchers to reconstruct the spread of the virus on the bus, whose windows were all closed.

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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:19 pm

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/04/coronavirus-what-you-should-know-diy-masks-and-ventilators/?cmpid=org=ngp::mc=crm-email::src=ngp::cmp=editorial::add=SpecialEdition_20200403&rid=2AD9DA1F4C042FDF5179BAD550EDF419&fbclid=IwAR1LvFS4__SxQ4NrOqXW9caijoU56HNK3R-d-MAtVq-gs7ABcpVTsPu11N8

What you should know about DIY masks and ventilators

Regardless, Davies wrote in a recent summary of her team’s findings that social distancing, hand-washing, and the avoidance of face touching are by far the most effective ways to protect society, adding that masks should be a last resort that is meant to prevent “an unavoidable risk of exposure.” (Here’s how long coronavirus lasts on surfaces and in the air.)


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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:18 pm

cdc says wear masks..  I disagree for the reasons WHO still says.  

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/cdc-guidance-cloth-face-masks-coronavirus-us-government/?utm_source=New+Atlas+Subscribers&utm_campaign=d2a9b4dfa3-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_04_06_08_13&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-d2a9b4dfa3-90245106

Experts have been divided on the topic of mask wearing over the past week. Some have suggested mass population mask wearing may reduce levels of community transmission considering there is increasing evidence of asymptomatic transmission. However, other experts have expressed concern masks can breed a false sense of security, resulting in wearers relaxing social distancing measures and general hygiene practices.

It is this particular concern that seems to be causing the World Health Organization to hold back from instituting general mask wearing recommendations. Michael Ryan, Chief Executive Director of the WHO Health Emergencies Programme, reiterated this point at the WHO’s most recent press briefing.


“We must preserve medical, surgical and respirator masks for our front-line workers but the idea of using respiratory coverings or mouth coverings to prevent coughing and sneezing projecting disease into the environment or towards others; that's a mechanical process and that in itself is not a bad idea but that doesn't negate the need for hand-washing, it doesn't negate the need for physical distancing, it doesn't negate the need for people to stay at home if there's a stay-at-home order in place,” said Ryan.

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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:15 pm

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data
Filed Under: COVID-19
Lisa M Brosseau, ScD, and Margaret Sietsema, PhD  | Apr 01, 2020
Share Tweet LinkedIn Email Print & PDF
wearing_masks_on_a_train.jpg
People wearing masks on a train
Vergani_Fotografia / iStock
Dr. Brosseau is a national expert on respiratory protection and infectious diseases and professor (retired), University of Illinois at Chicago.
Dr. Sietsema is also an expert on respiratory protection and an assistant professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

__________________________https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data


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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:11 pm

the argument of facemasks.     ,, they missed a few things in this research, one being it increased a person to believe they are secure so they spend more time out.   And stores are not happy with people hanging out, a letter from costco home depot employees say shop fast get out.   The employees are at larger risk the longer you think you are now safe so you stay longer.    Next this happened with me, they do note the education issue but missed a huge point,  people belive that the means of transmission is airborne when they have to use a mask, when the real culprit is touching what an infected person touched.      This was directly brought to my attention with a 14 year old child who told me I was wrong because they are telling everyone to wear masks.   This rationalization is from human factors people can visualize the cough with smell, someone releases gas and you can smell it through the entire room.   Hense a child and or not scientific person will only believe in facemasks and then clean their hands less.    In this case, she believed she could touch me and not wash her hands as much.    I find these researchers at Cambridge very lacking when they know that not one study ever done shows airborne is the transmission mechanism.  

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/cambridge-coronavirus-widespread-cloth-face-mask-covid-19/

There are three general arguments frequently presented against broad general use of face masks: there is no evidence they protect a person from contracting the virus, mass adoption takes valuable resources away from frontline healthcare workers, and they instill a false sense of security in the wearer, resulting in reduced adherence to other important hygiene measures.


The editorial does note prior research investigating real-world mask use in regards to influenza transmission found masks confer “no significant protection.” However, many of the arguments for mask wearing suggest the point of advocating broad mask use is about limiting transmission from those unaware they are infected, instead of acting as a protective measure for healthy subjects.

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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:08 pm

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/10/829890635/why-there-so-many-different-guidelines-for-face-masks-for-the-public

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/331693/WHO-2019-nCov-IPC_Masks-2020.3-eng.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y


no link for next one... 1 trillion dollars to prove it...

Quotable: Dr. Michael Osterholm, at the University of Minnesota, said he had no doubt that the six-foot distance would clearly “reduce the number of droplets you come in contact with.” But, he added: “The question is what does it take for you to get infected? And that I think is the trillion-dollar question.”

here is the link
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/briefing/us-news-today.html


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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:03 pm

I have said from the get go this is not airborn transmission .   I cited airplanes as not being overrun with all passengers getting sick and second the bus example (4 hour closed windows and not wearing masks and the people near the infected did not but some in the middle of the bus did.  and as noted WHO did not recommend masks.  And that there is one single article in all these years that viruses are airborn for transmission.  Ya you do not want a sick person coughing on ya.    the Chicago one where those the infected hugged at the wedding all got sick except one, and apparently no one else at the wedding did.   Still not one study showing airborne is able to show it.  

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-virus-causing-covid-19-implications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations?fbclid=IwAR3SPvG06ygdU9Zbmwx6sUfnBjiRJQ9uoU-LVcArLhJD8acZ7sh6EoOHrdg

This version updates the 27 March publication by providing definitions of droplets by particle size and adding three relevant publications.

Modes of transmission of the COVID-19 virus
Respiratory infections can be transmitted through droplets of different sizes: when the droplet particles are >5-10 μm in diameter they are referred to as respiratory droplets, and when then are <5μm in diameter, they are referred to as droplet nuclei.1 According to current evidence, COVID-19 virus is primarily transmitted between people through respiratory droplets and contact routes.2-7 In an analysis of 75,465 COVID-19 cases in China, airborne transmission was not reported.8

Mechanisms by Which Ambient Humidity May Affect Viruses in Aerosols
Wan Yang*,*
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3457514/?fbclid=IwAR3CQ0qW2BRtjwjlzx09w3bP8ewiui0r2gmoEQmakKNJuHRmZVbTmAHBcB0

here is a general one dealing with airflow
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7141890/

some viruses dies fast
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021850212001036?fbclid=IwAR126Aa6d4AKJhx9APhKWx2C_MMVqP1-_JJlCYFtOHTw3pkDQP9lh35dz9M

research called off  
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/29/847948272/why-the-u-s-government-stopped-funding-a-research-project-on-bats-and-coronaviru
Why The U.S. Government Stopped Funding A Research Project On Bats And Coronaviruses

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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:02 pm

I believe this is a great example of how it is not airborne.     and how difficult it is to get it.       Here is a cruise ship  that had a case obviously they could not test and either could the hospital they dropped the Italian off at before getting to Florida to pick up more passengers, it holds 2200 to 2,800  passengers.         After departing florida 3 days later they drop of several sick passengers in PR still not knowing if it was corona virus for many more days to come .    Here is a guests video of the partying that took place the close eating and so on.   And you can even hear people coughing very heavily in the background in a closed area with many people in the area.      Also note these appear all to be 50 yo and older.    And when they were flown on a charter back to the USA  to atlanta the 600 americans and canadians we at the time checked for fever and if no fever were than allowed to go to other commercial  flights to their homes.         And again how many were asymptomatic and we did not see a huge death rate from that ship even with the higher age risk group and the flights people were not and still are not reporting sickness from those flight that took the people home.  

If it was as easy to catch from airborn everyone would have been sick getting off that boat and when they were flying instead of the dreaded 2 persons infected a day it would have been 20-200 infected on an airplane.    Would be astronomical numbers.       Watch this video.   amazingly reported only 15 have died  considering all were of the higherst risk age groups and the partying that went on in ultra close range, if airborne they would have all had it.      

https://www.wsj.com/video/cruise-ship-partied-on-as-coronavirus-spread/7EDE1FAB-FFED-4F95-872A-D7EB22F3F74F.html

Cruise Ship Partied On as Coronavirus Spread    
Jennifer Catron boarded Carnival’s Costa Luminosa on March 5 for a transatlantic cruise. Her video diaries provide a window into life on board the ship as the coronavirus scare became a full-blown pandemic.


wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Luminosa
Incidents
Coronavirus pandemic
See also: 2020 coronavirus pandemic on cruise ships § Costa Luminosa
On 2020.02.29, a 68-year-old Italian man in critical condition was transferred from Costa Luminosa to a hospital in the Cayman Islands due to heart issues.[16] On 2020.03.12, the Health Services Authority of the Cayman Islands announced that the man was their first confirmed coronavirus case.[17][18] His death was announced two days later.[16][19]

On 5 March 2020 the vessel left Fort Lauderdale for a transatlantic cruise. Two people disembarked with symptoms of the coronavirus in Puerto Rico. Subsequently, on 13 March 2020, it was confirmed to be due to coronavirus disease 2019 – the first known cases in Puerto Rico.[20] One of the two persons died several days later. Because of the virus outbreak several sick passengers were left at Tenerife and passengers were placed under quarantine in their rooms. The ship was not allowed to dock in Spain. It docked at Marseille, France, discharging sick passengers who flew home distributing the virus,[19] and went to Savona where the rest of the passengers were disembarked on 23 March, many of them sick.[21] After the disembarkation at Marseille, French authorities confirmed 36 people with COVID-19 infection.[22] On 21 March local news in Puerto Rico reported the death of the quarantined Italian woman.[23] On 7 April 2020, A Miami lawyer filed a lawsuit against the Costa Cruises over mishandling and allowing passengers to sail Costa Luminosa despite having flu-like symptoms.[24]


here is another note about Carnival cruise.   Seems the owner is a friend of trumps and is on the task force to re-open the country.    Shows how the company has cut corners many times with huge fines.    Yep thats they type of business leader we need helping the world.    

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-carnival-cruise-coronavirus/

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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:02 pm

As evidence the WHO did not even recommend masks except for the sick. There is not one peer reviewed document showing it is. And the outbreak would be much more severe.

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