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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch

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Post by dean Sat May 02, 2020 1:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

As evidence the WHO did not even recommend masks except for the sick. There is not one peer reviewed document showing it is. And the outbreak would be much more severe.

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Post by dean Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:15 am

https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/52/5/351/167261


Visualization of the Airflow around a Life-Sized, Heated, Breathing Mannequin at Ultralow Windspeeds



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Post by dean Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:53 pm



here is a very good one for showing c-19 was not in the air but on surfaces several days after diagnosis. Note this is peer reviewed science. testing feb 6- april 10 and just published.

https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0008570


Air and surface contamination in non-health care settings among 641 environmental specimens of 39 COVID-19 cases


Abstract
Little is known about the SARS-CoV-2 contamination of environmental surfaces and air in non-health care settings among COVID-19 cases. We explored the SARS-CoV-2 contamination of environmental surfaces and air by collecting air and swabbing environmental surfaces among 39 COVID-19 cases in Guangzhou, China. The specimens were tested on RT-PCR. The information collected for COVID-19 cases included basic demographic, clinical severity, symptoms at onset, radiological testing, laboratory testing and hospital admission. A total of 641 environmental surfaces and air specimens were collected among 39 COVID-19 cases before disinfection. Among them, 20 specimens (20/641, 3.1%) were tested positive from 9 COVID-19 cases (9/39, 23.1%), with 5 (5/101, 5.0%) positive specimens from 3 asymptomatic cases, 5 (5/220, 2.3%) from 3 mild cases, and 10 (10/374, 2.7%) from 3 moderate cases. All positive specimens were collected within 3 days after diagnosis, and 10 (10/42, 23.8%) were found in toilet (5 on toilet bowl, 4 on sink/faucet/shower, 1 on floor drain), 4 (4/21, 19.0%) in anteroom (2 on water dispenser/cup/bottle, 1 on chair/table, 1 on TV remote), 1 (1/8, 12.5%) in kitchen (1 on dining-table), 1 (1/18, 5.6%) in bedroom (1 on bed/sheet pillow/bedside table), 1 (1/5, 20.0%) in car (1 on steering wheel/seat/handlebar) and 3 (3/20, 21.4%) on door knobs. Air specimens in room (0/10, 0.0%) and car (0/1, 0.0%) were all negative. SARS-CoV-2 was found on environmental surfaces especially in toilet, and may survive for several days. We provided evidence of potential for SARS-CoV-2 transmission through contamination of environmental surfaces.

Author summary

The Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has precipitated a global crisis. It is important to understanding the SARS-CoV-2 contamination of environmental surfaces and air in non-health care settings among COVID-19 cases. In this study, we explored the SARS-CoV-2 contamination of environmental surfaces and air by collecting air and swabbing environmental surfaces among 39 COVID-19 cases in Guangzhou, China. We found that 20 specimens were tested positive from 9 COVID-19 cases. All positive specimens were collected within 3 days after diagnosis, and 10 were found in toilet. Air specimens in room and car were all negative. SARS-CoV-2 was found on environmental surfaces especially in toilet, and may survive for several days. We provided evidence of potential for SARS-CoV-2 transmission through contamination of environmental surfaces.

Introduction
The Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has precipitated a global crisis, and it has resulted in 5,404,512 confirmed cases including with 343,514 deaths globally as of May 26, 2020 [1]. Reported transmission modes of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) among humans were mainly through respiratory droplets produced by infected cases with sneezes or coughs [2]. People may be infected by inhalation of virus laden liquid droplets, and infection is more likely when someone are in close contact with COVID-19 cases [2–4]. However, the importance of indirect contact transmission, such as environmental contamination, is uncertain [5–7]. Evidences suggested that environmental contamination with SARS-CoV-2 is likely to be high, and it is supported by recent researches focused on environmental contamination from COVID-19 cases in hospital [5–9]. Hospitals have already perfect disinfection measures, and are less likely to appear super-spreaders compared with community and household [4,10–12]. However, the role of air and surface contamination in non-health care settings is still need to be explored. Therefore, it is important to understand the environmental contamination of infected cases by SARS-CoV-2 in non-health care settings, which is a vital aspect of controlling the spread of the epidemic.

To address this question, in this study, we sampled total of 641 surfaces environmental and air specimens among 39 cases in Guangzhou, China, to explore the surrounding environmental surfaces and air contamination by SARS-CoV-2 in non-health care settings.

Methods
Study design and setting
Based on COVID-19 case reports, environmental surfaces and air specimens were collected by Guangzhou CDC (GZCDC) from Feb 6 to Apr 10, 2020. The environmental surfaces specimens of COVID-19 cases sampled in home, hotel, public area, restaurant, marketplace, car and pet, which was associated with COVID-19 cases’ life trajectory before hospitalization. Air specimens of COVID-19 cases were also sampled in their room (home or hotel). All specimens were collected before disinfection.

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Post by dean Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:32 pm

japan uses the worst masks and does just fine.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.05.20207241v1


• [Pre-print, not peer-reviewed] Face coverings were found to be more effective than face shields at blocking the small aerosol particles propelled by a cough aerosol simulator. The efficacy of blocking aerosols was 99% with an N95 respirator, 59% with a procedure mask, 51% with a 3-ply cloth face mask, 47% with a polyester neck gaiter and 2% with a face shield.


Face masks are recommended to reduce community transmission of SARS CoV 2. One of the primary benefits of face masks and other coverings is as source control devices to reduce the expulsion of respiratory aerosols during coughing, breathing, and speaking. Face shields have been proposed as an alternative to face masks, but information about face shields as source control devices is limited. We used a cough aerosol simulator with a headform to propel small aerosol particles (0 to 7 μm) into different face coverings. An N95 respirator blocked 99% of the cough aerosol, a procedure mask blocked 59%, a 3-ply cloth face mask blocked 51%, and a polyester neck gaiter blocked 47% as a single layer and 60% when folded into a double layer. In contrast, the face shield blocked 2% of the cough aerosol. Our results suggest that face masks and neck gaiters are preferable to face shields as source control devices for cough aerosols.

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Post by dean Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:21 pm

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1517/5917611


Survival of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza virus on the human skin: Importance of hand hygiene in COVID-19


• Survival time of SARS-CoV-2 on human skin was significantly longer than that of influenza A virus (9.0 hours vs. 1.8 hours). Exposure of both viruses to 80% ethanol while on the skin surface, in the context of droplets from a cough or sneeze, inactivated both viruses within 15 seconds of exposure, indicating appropriate hand hygiene using ethanol-based disinfectants may lead to the quick viral inactivation and may reduce the high risk of contact infections.

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Post by dean Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:04 am

again contsact, as I have said from the getgo, bars are huge contact areas.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paris-shuts-bars-brake-covid-114550310.html
Paris shuts bars to brake Covid-19 spread

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Post by dean Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:14 am

https://www.route-fifty.com/health-human-services/2020/09/overlooked-variable-key-pandemic/168909/

I find it amazing that a professor writes an entire article claiming it is airborne without any discussion how he knows it is when the WHO still to this date does not claim it is with their top experts who see any documentation there is and has been for 60 plus years.

Plus he does not explain how you can sit next to with no mask on a train with 70,000 contact tracings done and 400 infected and be next to them for 2 hour average with the person next to you only 3.5% chance, and the direction you are breathing the seats in front of you half of that.

Again there is not one scientifically peer reviewed document to date that has eliminated the contact before making their claim. Till you can rule out all the potential contact you can not claim in a situation that it is airborne.

In his Japan discussion he does not even note how you do not embrace as a culture for a greeting, you get a clean hot towel in a restaurant when you are going to eat, vs the Latin American cultures that still do the kiss hug greeting. Sapin is a kiss hug culture. France is a kiss hug culture.

For the italy ones too I bet that region was known for the kiss hug greeting, and after a while they realized it and the rest of the country stopped doing it. That would easily explain the significant differentials if one was open minded about contact.

and yes UK with their bars are open as I have mentioned in a bar drinking you make mistakes the more you drink and there are so many cross contact areas there.

Sweeden and netherlands just did nothing basically.

If you look at what I just mentioned for high contact cultures from bars to kiss hug other than the USA we probably have the top 20 highest rate nations.

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Post by dean Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:59 pm

my take in masks is they prevent you from touching your face directly which prevents you if you touched a contaminated surface from infecting yourself as easily. Thus when taking the mask off wash your hands first and when done removing and setting it down wash again. As noted people touch their faces over 20 times an hour as a norm. with a mask on if you touch the mask which does happen as it is peer reviewed you are not getting it into your mouth or nose.

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Post by dean Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:51 pm

I have been thinking about airborne vs contact and viral loads in relations to the keyboard. Considering the keyboard has one of the highest germ loads as shown in peer reviewed test after test (400 times that of a toilet seat), it is there from our hands as the we are not breathing on the keyboard, same with the light switch, doorknob, coffee pot handle, fridge handle, back of chairs, elevator button, we do not breath on those either and they are all very high in germ loads.). Would be interesting if they did a check on the keyboard vs the monitor which the monitor is what you are directly breathing on.

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Post by dean Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:19 pm

well sitting next to a sick peron on a bullet train for 2 hours and only 3.5% chance and that is without wearing masks.     So of cource in a hospital er with probably all kinds of handwashing systems.    

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/infection-control-and-hospital-epidemiology/article/risk-of-covid19-acquisition-among-emergency-department-patients-a-retrospective-case-control-study/2BCBD91E7E8A03500CC2011D7AA704AD  


Transmission
Spending time in an emergency department (ED) at the same time as someone with COVID-19 did not appear to increase the risk of acquiring SARS-CoV-2 infection. These findings are based on a case-control study across 39 EDs in the western US including 102 cases who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 following an ED encounter unrelated to COVID-19 symptoms and 201 controls who visited the same ED within 6 days of the case patient and subsequently tested negative.

Ridgway and Robicsek. (Sept 23, 2020). Risk of Covid-19 Acquisition among Emergency Department Patients: A Retrospective Case Control Study. Infection Control & Hospital Epidemiology. https://doi.org/10.1017/ice.2020.1224
 


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Post by dean Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:02 pm

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-3254_article
another plane two infected and only one person got ill. 15 hour plane ride 290 passengers. no masks.

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Post by dean Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:49 pm

here is one before facemasks note two passengers way back got sick...     wow the magic bullet shot so far back and got a few passengers very few in economy in this 12 hour flight... air in planes have filtered air.    can really only be justified by contact as they are not allowed in the business class section.  And generally have a different door and bathrooms.. notes the flight attendant who works in the economy did get ill and she uses the business class bathrooms.

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https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-3299-f1
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-3299_article
https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/09/21/risk-of-covid-19-transmission-on-long-flights-is-real-and-could-be-superspreader-events-says-cdc-study/


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Post by dean Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:23 pm

peer reviewed...

again pointing it is contact... In these nursing homes we can assume they were not special filtration systems in them as they would have noted that differential. To have such a drastic differential it has to be the cleaning routine and the serving of food differential. a 94% differential from rated 1 to 5 nursing homes... again if airborn it would all be equal unless a special air filtration system was within.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a5.htm?s_cid=mm6937a5_w


Association Between CMS Quality Ratings and COVID-19 Outbreaks in Nursing Homes — West Virginia, March 17–June 11, 2020


During March–June 2020, 14 (11%) of 123 West Virginia nursing homes experienced COVID-19 outbreaks. Compared with 1-star–rated (lowest rating) nursing homes, the odds of a COVID-19 outbreak were 87% lower among 2- to 3-star–rated facilities and 94% lower among 4- to 5-star–rated facilities.


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Post by dean Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:01 pm

more evidence to support my statement..

I have said this would be the case, but i heard it first from a friend of mine who is a MD staying at my place. I had told him how before there were any cases in souther CA and TJ when I flew end of Feb only a handful of people wore masks on the return trip and none on the first leg of full planes. I told him first time in my life I had to stand in line in the mens restroom for not the urinal but the sink to wash hands. He immediate connected the dots and said he was willing to bet the normal flus were going to be very low in his practice. IEwash your hands equates to less flus. again I have shown documentation that by cleaning surfaces they were able to stop most germs and that a keyboard has a germ load 400 times a toilet seat. And I believed that this would also translate to covid-19 in the same proportions, as I called it leap of faith.

Well some peer reviewed have come in 61% decrease in other normal flus ... I say because people are washing their hands and masks stop higher viral loads on hands in public places and people touch their faces less and if they do they deposit the virus on the outside of the mask.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htm?s_cid=mm6937a6_w


Decreased Influenza Activity During the COVID-19 Pandemic — United States, Australia, Chile, and South Africa, 2020


• There was a 61% decrease in the number of respiratory specimens sent for influenza testing and a 98% decrease in test positivity during the COVID-19 pandemic period (March 1–May 16), which may indicate that COVID-19 mitigation measures can prevent influenza in the US, but the authors emphasize that influenza vaccination remains very important. More

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Post by dean Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:08 am

note TB has a R value of 11-13 and is airborne.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-update-global-cases-edge-toward-30-million-and-china-says-vaccine-may-be-ready-by-november-2020-09-15?mod=MW_article_top_stories

• Denmark’s coronavirus reproduction, or “R” rate, has climbed to 1.5, meaning that every 10 people who are infected are infecting another 15, the Guardian reported. Health Minister Magnus Heunicke said restaurants, bars and cafés must close at 10 p.m. in the capital, Copenhagen. Denmark had counted 334 new infections in the past 24 hours, he told reporters.

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Post by dean Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:15 pm

people touch too many things at restaurants. Bring your own silverware... I cleaned my own table and chairs before sitting at the table. as i got my drink cleaned the drink before I drank from it.

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/cdc-restaurants-dining-high-risk-coronavirus-infection-hotspots/?utm_source=New+Atlas+Subscribers&utm_campaign=9a922f9665-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_09_14_08_15&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-9a922f9665-90245106

CDC study suggests restaurants are high-risk COVID-19 infection hotspots

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Post by dean Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:02 pm

gee get it going to a bar is dangerous, restaurant, well take matters in your own hands, bring your own silverware, drink from a straw, wash the glass, table and chairs as you arrive. Do not leave the safety to others when you can do it yourself and be sure chair was sprayed and table. Do not go to bars...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w


Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 Among Symptomatic Adults ≥18 Years in 11 Outpatient Health Care Facilities — United States, July 2020


Summary
What is already known about the topic?

Community and close contact exposures contribute to the spread of COVID-19.

What is added by this report?

Findings from a case-control investigation of symptomatic outpatients from 11 U.S. health care facilities found that close contact with persons with known COVID-19 or going to locations that offer on-site eating and drinking options were associated with COVID-19 positivity. Adults with positive SARS-CoV-2 test results were approximately twice as likely to have reported dining at a restaurant than were those with negative SARS-CoV-2 test results.

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Post by dean Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:02 pm

hmmm a wedding at a bar, gee      ya i have said the worst things are bars, construction, buffets, and gyms.    Well schools specially with younger kids.  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minnesota-wedding-linked-to-at-least-70-coronavirus-cases/ar-BB18UaKL?ocid=msedgdhp  


Minnesota Wedding Linked to at Least 70 Coronavirus Cases  


 
The “large” wedding, which included an indoor ceremony, reception and dance, was held on Aug. 22 in the small town of Ghent, according to a release from the state’s Southwest Health and Human Services.

“Several people in attendance at the wedding have symptoms and have tested positive for COVID-19, but it is likely many more were exposed and could be infectious,” said the Aug. 26 release, urging people who were in contact with a wedding guest who tested positive or had symptoms to quarantine for 14 days.

“If you don’t know whether you had such contact, but you were at the wedding, reception or dance at the KB’s Bar and Grill that night, you should still be very diligent about limiting interactions with people as much as possible during the 14 days after the wedding, and be very conscientious about wearing a face mask and social distancing during that time,” said the official release.

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Post by dean Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:25 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/well/live/coronavirus-spread-transmission-face-touching-hands.html

 


Stop Touching Your Face!  


 
Published March 2, 2020
Updated March 6, 2020

686
Want to improve your chance of staying healthy? Stop touching your face!

One of the more difficult challenges in public health has been to teach people to wash their hands frequently and to stop touching the facial mucous membranes — the eyes, nose and mouth, all entry portals for the new coronavirus and many other germs.

“Scratching the nose, rubbing your eyes, leaning on your chin and your fingers go next to your mouth — there’s multiple ways we do it,” said Dr. Nancy C. Elder, a professor of family medicine at Oregon Health and Science University in Portland who has studied face touching among doctors and clinic staff members. “Everybody touches their face, and it’s a difficult habit to break.”

As communities prepare for the spread of coronavirus around the globe, the primary advice from health officials is for people to wash their hands. But a number of health researchers say the public health message also should include a more forceful warning about face touching.

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“The C.D.C. and W.H.O. still say something like ‘avoid' touching your eyes, nose and mouth,” said Dr. William P. Sawyer, a family physician in Sharonville, Ohio, and creator of HenrytheHand.com, which promotes hand and face hygiene. “The advice should be ‘absolutely do not touch them!’ If you never touch your facial mucous membranes, you’re less likely to be sick again from any viral respiratory infection.”

How to Stop Touching Your Face
We know it’s hard. Try these four tricks to help limit the number of times you touch your face each day to help prevent the spread of the coronavirus.
March 5, 2020

To understand why hand hygiene and face touching can make a meaningful difference during a pandemic, consider how a virus can spread. An infected person rides in an elevator, touching buttons both outside and inside the elevator or maybe sneezing during the ride. When that person leaves, microscopic droplets containing the virus stay behind. The next people who press the same buttons or touch a surface pick up the virus on their hands, then scratch their noses or rub their eyes.

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“Eyes, nose, mouth — all those mucous membranes are the portal into the body for a virus like Covid-19 or SARS,” said Mary-Louise McLaws, professor of epidemiology, health care infection and infectious diseases control at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia.

“I was in a conference yesterday watching people, and in just about two minutes I counted a dozen times that I saw someone touching mucous membranes,” Dr. McLaws said. “It is a very common practice. We rub our eyes, scratch our nose, touch our mouth — the general community needs to be aware of how often they are touching their face.”

Dr. McLaws was the senior author of a 2015 study on face touching that documented the alarming number of times we do it. While medical students attended a lecture, the researchers filmed them and counted the number of times they touched any part of their faces. Over the course of an hour, students touched their faces, on average, 23 times. Nearly half of the touches were to the eyes, nose or mouth — what infectious disease researchers call “the T-zone.”

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Other studies of primary care doctors, people doing office work, and students riding a simulated rail car have all found similar rates of touching the T-zone.

“I was really surprised,” Dr. McLaws said. “By touching your mucous membranes, you’re giving a virus 11 opportunities every hour if you’ve touched something infectious.”

The risk of picking up a virus by hand-to-face contact depends on a number of factors, including the type of virus, whether the surface was nonporous, how long ago the virus was left behind, how much time the infected person spent in the area and the temperature and humidity levels.

The World Health Organization notes that while we don’t know how long the new coronavirus survives on surfaces, it seems to behave like other coronaviruses — which is unsettling news. A recent study from the Journal of Hospital Infection found that similar coronaviruses have been shown to survive on surfaces for as long as nine days under ideal conditions. That’s far longer than the flu virus, which typically can survive under ideal conditions only up to 24 hours on hard surfaces. Public Health England says that, based on studies of other coronaviruses like SARS and MERS, “the risk of picking up a live virus from a contaminated surface” under real-life conditions “is likely to be reduced significantly after 72 hours.”

In general, a virus will survive the longest on nonporous surfaces made of metal and plastics — including door knobs, counters and railings. A virus will die sooner on fabrics or tissues. Once on your hand, a virus begins to lose potency, but it will probably live long enough for you to touch your face. Although more study is needed of coronavirus, in one study of rhinovirus, which causes the common cold, a small dose of virus was placed on a participant’s finger. An hour later, about 40 percent of the virus was still viable. After three hours, 16 percent could still be detected.

We also know from the 2003 epidemic of SARS, a more deadly coronavirus than the one currently spreading, that the virus was often transmitted from surface contact. In one Hong Kong hotel, an infected doctor who checked into his room on the ninth floor before going to the hospital for treatment left a trail of virus that infected at least seven people who also had rooms on the ninth floor, who then went on to spread the disease elsewhere. The doctor, who died from the infection, was later identified as a “super spreader” linked to about 4,000 cases of SARS that occurred during the epidemic.

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The good news is that frequent hand washing can make a meaningful difference in lowering your risk. During the SARS epidemic, hand-washing reduced the risk of transmission by 30 to 50 percent. But after washing your hands, you must still be mindful about face touching, Dr. Sawyer said.

“Your hands are only clean until the next surface you touch,” he said. “When you reach for the door knob or hand railing, you’ve recontaminated your hand with something. If you touch your mucous membranes, then you could inoculate yourself inadvertently with that organism. If there is one behavior change that could prevent infection, it’s do not touch your T-zone.”

But it’s not easy to stop face touching. In fact, many people say that the more they think about it, the more their eyes twitch and their nose itches. A number of memes have emerged on social media from people who say that ever since the warnings about coronavirus, they can’t stop touching their own faces.


Only humans and a few primates (gorillas, orangutans and chimpanzees) are known to touch their faces with little or no awareness of the habit. (Most animals touch their faces only to groom or swat away a pest.) German researchers analyzed the brain’s electrical activity before and after spontaneous face touching, and their findings suggested that we touch our faces as a way to relieve stress and manage our emotions.

To break the face-touching habit, try using a tissue if you need to scratch your nose or rub your eyes. Wearing makeup may reduce face touching, since it may make you more mindful of not smudging it. One study found that women touched their faces far less when they wore makeup. Another solution: Try to identify triggers for face touching, like dry skin or itchy eyes, and use moisturizers or eye drops to treat those conditions so you are less likely to rub or scratch your face.

It also may help to wear glasses to create a barrier to touching your eyes. Gloves or mittens can also make you more mindful of not touching your face (and can make it more difficult to put your finger in your nose or your eye). Although gloves, too, can become contaminated, viruses don’t live as long on fabric or leather.

Given that face touching is a long-ingrained habit, it makes sense to remain vigilant about frequent hand washing and wipe down your desk, phones and community surfaces. Carry hand sanitizer and use it often. The more mindful you are about regular hand washing, the more mindful you will be about your hands and what they are touching.


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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Empty the virus spread by indirect transmission.

Post by dean Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:24 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/28/well/live/whats-the-risk-of-catching-coronavirus-from-a-surface.html
What’s the Risk of Catching Coronavirus From a Surface?


Dr. Chudnovsky, a theoretical physicist whose research has focused on the spread of the airborne infection, said a similar pattern is likely to be true for the new coronavirus, but the exact numbers are not known.

“I believe the C.D.C. is right when it says that surface transmission is not a dominant one,” said Dr. Chudnovsky. “Surfaces frequently touched by a large number of people, like door handles, elevator buttons, etc., may play a more significant role in spreading the infection than objects touched incidentally, like food packages delivered to homes.”

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.04.20053058v1.full.pdf

this was 1245 cases reviewed. just one found to be outdoor.   this is also before masks or rigerous handwashing rountines.  

Conclusions: All identified outbreaks of three or more cases occurred in an indoor
environment, which confirms that sharing indoor space is a major SARS-CoV-2 infection
risk.


here is a 8 floor mall where there definitely people who got sick,  confirmed patient  A worked there.   People who worked there on other floors that were never in contact with Pateient A and they had no other place they could have caught it from as these were the first cases in this region.   they closed the mall down within two days of noting this.    But patient A had been working there for 30 days since coming back from wuhan in december.   so 17 people were infected at the mall in that time, 7 people that worked there and 11 customers of how many people that went to that mall ?

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0412_article
Indirect Virus Transmission in Cluster of COVID-19 Cases, Wenzhou, China, 2020

On January 22, the mall was shut down. During January 19–February 9, COVID-19 was diagnosed for 7 mall staff from floors B1–3 and for 10 mall customers. Close contacts associated with the mall were traced, and COVID-19 was confirmed for 11 persons. Sixteen patients had had direct contact with other patients or had gone shopping in the mall. The average incubation period was 7.3 (range 1–17) days.

Thumbnail of Cluster of COVID-19 cases associated with a shopping mall in Wenzhou, China. A) Distribution of COVID-19 case-patients by mall floor, time, and internal relationship. B) Dates of symptom onset, confirmed test results, and hospitalization information. Numbers within yellow bars indicate length of incubation period. Black vertical arrow indicates date when patient A returned from Wuhan, China. B1–7, mall floors; C, customer; COVID-19, coronavirus disease; Ct, cycle threshold; T, date
Figure. Cluster of COVID-19 cases associated with a shopping mall in Wenzhou, China. A) Distribution of COVID-19 case-patients by mall floor, time, and internal relationship. B) Dates of symptom onset, confirmed test...

The mall has 8 floors above ground and several basement levels; floors B1 to 6 are commercial shopping space, and floor 7 contains shopping and office space. We created an illustration showing the floors where the eventual COVID-19 case-patients worked or shopped, along with dates of symptom onset, potential incubation periods, symptom durations, confirmed times of positive diagnosis, and times of discharge (Figure, panel A).

Except for those who had been on floor 7, all other case-patients denied direct close contact with other case-patients. The possibility of customers being infected from other sources cannot be excluded. However, most customers reported early symptom onset in a concentrated time frame (Figure, panel B). We found no convincing evidence of definitive transmission pathways in this building. Patients A–G (Figure, panel A) worked in the same room on floor 7. Other case-patients who had been on other floors denied any direct contact with confirmed patients from floor 7, but they shared common building facilities (e.g., restrooms, elevators). Also, staff from floor 7 visited shops on other floors daily.

Until now, no evidence has shown that SARS-CoV-2 can survive outside the body for long. However, Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus demonstrates high robustness and a strong capability to survive outside the body and can remain infectious for up to 60 minutes after aerosolization (4). Hence, the rapid spread of SARS-CoV-2 in our study could have resulted from spread via fomites (e.g., elevator buttons or restroom taps) or virus aerosolization in a confined public space (e.g., restrooms or elevators). All case-patients other than those on floor 7 were female, including a restroom cleaner, so common restroom use could have been the infection source. For case-patients who were customers in the shopping mall but did not report using the restroom, the source of infection could have been the elevators. The Guangzhou Center for Disease Control and Prevention detected the nucleic acid of SARS-CoV-2 on a doorknob at a patient’s house (5), but Wenzhou Center for Disease Control and Prevention test results for an environmental sample from the surface of a mall elevator wall and button were negative.


We cannot exclude the possibility of unknown infected persons (e.g., asymptomatic carriers) spreading the virus. However, according to screening protocols implemented by the Wenzhou Center for Disease Control and Prevention, we traced all close contacts and included all patients with positive PCR results, including the asymptomatic carrier (patient A), in this study. Our findings appear to indicate that low intensity transmission occurred without prolonged close contact in this mall; that is, the virus spread by indirect transmission.


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09603120500115298?scroll=top&needAccess=true

Occurrence of bacteria and biochemical markers on public surfaces  
date 2007
Abstract
From 1999 – 2003, the hygiene of 1061 environmental surfaces from shopping, daycare, and office environments, personal items, and miscellaneous activities (i.e., gymnasiums, airports, movie theaters, restaurants, etc.), in four US cities, was monitored. Samples were analyzed for fecal and total coliform bacteria, protein, and biochemical markers. Biochemical markers, i.e., hemoglobin (blood marker), amylase (mucus, saliva, sweat, and urine marker), and urea (urine and sweat marker) were detected on 3% (26/801); 15% (120/801), and 6% (48/801) of the surfaces, respectively. Protein (general hygiene marker) levels ⩾ 200 μg/10 cm2 were present on 26% (200/801) of the surfaces tested. Surfaces from children's playground equipment and daycare centers were the most frequently contaminated (biochemical markers on 36%; 15/42 and 46%; 25/54, respectively). Surfaces from the shopping, miscellaneous activities, and office environments were positive for biochemical markers with a frequency of 21% (69/333), 21% (66/308), and 11% (12/105), respectively). Sixty samples were analyzed for biochemical markers and bacteria. Total and fecal coliforms were detected on 20% (12/60) and 7% (4/60) of the surfaces, respectively. Half and one-third of the sites positive for biochemical markers were also positive for total and fecal coliforms, respectively. Artificial contamination of public surfaces with an invisible fluorescent tracer showed that contamination from outside surfaces was transferred to 86% (30/35) of exposed individual's hands and 82% (29/35) tracked the tracer to their home or personal belongings hours later. Results provide information on the relative hygiene of commonly encountered public surfaces and aid in the identification of priority environments where contaminant occurrence and risk of exposure may be greatest. Children's playground equipment is identified as a priority surface for additional research on the occurrence of and potential exposure to infectious disease causing agents.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25637115/

Face touching: a frequent habit that has implications for hand hygiene

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.905.8444&rep=rep1&type=pdf
OCCURRENCE OF BACTERIA IN DISHCLOTHS USED IN RESTAURANTS
AND SURVIVAL OF RESPIRATORY VIRUSES ON PRODUCE

By
María Susana Yépiz Gόmez
A Dissertation Submitted to the Faculty of the
DEPARTMENT OF SOIL, WATER, AND ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE


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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Empty there is no way to rule out a common surface, such as a pol

Post by dean Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:45 am

here is one they claim could be spread in the bus by the air system, yet the people next to the vents were  less likely to get it.   They went to a location which they probably used the restroom on arrival and ate? had a snack on the bus?,   being elder did they all touch seat backs handles and so on.    These issues were not investigated well enough though they noted the pole.   this was no masks being worn, and in the world only 500 cases known at the time.   Other people got sick that attended the outdoor event (7) but no bus ride so again when did this infected person use the bathroom at the event, did the other bus arrive first and use the bathroom before infected patient?    


Community Outbreak Investigation of SARS-CoV-2 Transmission Among Bus Riders in Eastern China
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2770172?alert=article

While the high attack rate and the distribution of cases on bus
2 is consistent with airborne transmission, there is no way to
rule out a common surface, such as a pole, because of possible insufficient recall.
However, given that there were participants with infection sitting in the last row, airborne transmission is likely to be a partial transmission route.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/symptom-free-bus-passenger-without-mask-spread-covid-19-to-two-dozen-others-china-study/ar-BB18BW6m

Some 300 people attended the temple ceremony, but only 128 made the 50-minute trip by bus. One bus carried 68 passengers, including the individual who was infected, while the second bus carried 60 people. None of the worshipers wore masks.

The paper in JAMA Internal Medicine does not describe the infected individual and says the person did not have symptoms until the after returning from the temple. But a version of the study published in China says the individual was a 64-year-old woman and that she developed symptoms on Jan. 18, a day after dining with guests from Hubei and a day before going to the temple. She took medicine but did not see a doctor.


“The Chinese paper says the index case was unwell the day before going to the temple, so she was probably very infectious, because we know that viral load is really high around the time of symptom onset,” Dr. Cevik said.

The outdoor ceremony lasted two and a half hours and was followed by a brief lunch, which took place in a spacious room that did not have recirculating air-conditioning. When the passengers returned to their buses, they took the same seats they had occupied earlier.

In addition to the passengers who became infected, another seven individuals who attended the ceremony were infected. They did not travel by bus, but said they had been in close contact with the infected passenger.
I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Bb18bo10

Classification 117 and 2.18 Two different approaches to define high-risk and
low-risk COVID-19 zones are indicated: zone 1 (high-risk zone) and zone 2
(low-risk zones). Severity levels of cases were indicated. Windows are indicated
with ovals, and there are 4 green side windows and that could be opened for
fresh air. C indicates case; NC, noncase.


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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Empty Re: I do not believe it is airborn it is touch

Post by dean Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:06 pm

https://youtu.be/OOvENoZMmK4


the first part is good.   there is no evidence of airborne.     ths is an old video and still no evidence of airborne.   again showed a peer reviewed research and on a plane with no masks 4 infected people found after the flight lands and only 1 sick person in two weeks. That is a recent publication of real science.


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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Empty flight 6 infected people only 2 catch

Post by dean Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:52 pm

another flight (two of them) example, but this time 6 infected people all people wore masks, with separation and same result 1 person ended up with covid.  

again at least this one they spell it out, contact and probably bathroom.  

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-3353_article

Asymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 on Evacuation Flight

• Bae et al. report a single incidence of possible transmission of COVID-19 during an evacuation flight from Italy to South Korea. After airport screening, 299 asymptomatic passengers took an 11-hour flight to South Korea, during which most of them wore N95 respirators at all times. They were tested for SARS-CoV-2 by RT-PCR on days 1 and 14 during their subsequent quarantine period.
• Six passengers tested positive when the plane arrived in South Korea. One patient tested positive on day 14. She reported wearing an N95 mask at all times on the flight except for when she used a toilet. She was seated three rows away from one of the patients who tested positive on day 1 and used the same toilet during the flight.
• All 18 members of the cabin crew and medical staff tested negative at both day 1 and day 14 of quarantine after the flight.

Bae et al. (Nov 2020). Asymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 on Evacuation Flight. Emerging Infectious Diseases. https://doi.org/10.3201/eid2611.203353


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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Empty Are There More Bacteria on Computer Keyboards Than Toilet Se

Post by dean Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:29 pm

two more computer keyboard germ links..

http://www.center4research.org/bacteria-computer-keyboards-toilet-seats/

Are There More Bacteria on Computer Keyboards Than Toilet Seats?
Sarah Miller RN, Keris Krennhrubec, and Diana Zuckerman, PhD, National Center for Health Research
We all try to keep our kitchens and bathrooms clean and bacteria-free. But how clean are our offices, computers, and keyboards? Most of us spend many hours every week typing at a computer, but rarely think to clean it. How dirty can our desks get?

Keyboards and Bacteria

Research from the Swinburne University of Technology  in Australia studied the amount and type of bacteria on personal faculty keyboards and shared keyboards and other surfaces around the university. They found that keyboards can have high levels of bacteria on them and that shared keyboards tend to have more bacteria than those used by only one person.[1]

Even more disturbing, research by University of Arizona researchers also found that the average desktop has 400 times more bacteria than the average toilet seat.
That study took samples from offices across the United States, and also showed that women’s desks tended to harbor more bacteria than men’s.

A study at Chicago’s Northwestern Memorial Hospital found that two deadly drug-resistant types of bacteria (vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus faecium (VRE) and methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA)) could survive for up to 24 hours on a keyboard, while another common but less deadly bug (Pseudomonas aeruginosa) could survive for an hour.[2]

How Do Bacteria Get on Your Desk and Keyboard?
Most of the bacteria found by researchers are types that tend to live on people, usually in our skin and in our mouths and nasal passages. So it is likely that most of the bacteria came from our hands.

Although many of these bacteria won’t hurt you unless your immune system is weak because of another illness, it could still cause an infection in you have a cut on your fingers (even a tiny one you can’t see).It is still wise to be careful, especially if you are sharing a computer with other people. For example, if the person who used the keyboard before you was coming down with the flu, it is possible that you could catch the flu from using the keyboard afterwards.

A good precaution is to wash your hands before and after using a shared computer, telephone or other equipment and to encourage others to do the same. It is not a good idea, either, to eat at your computer, especially if you share it with others. When you eat and then type, you are probably transmitting bacteria from your mouth to the keyboard (not to mention getting crumbs everywhere).

https://www.cbtnuggets.com/blog/career/career-progression/bytes-and-bacteria-exposing-the-germs-on-your-technology?rdr_type=301&rdr_source=cloudfront&rdr_origin=/blog/2016/10/bytes-and-bacteria-exposing-the-germs-on-your-technology


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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Empty flight from Tel Aviv, Israel, to Frankfurt

Post by dean Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:50 pm

look at this and they can not figure it out it is contact...   NOT airborne...

7 index cases with covid on a flight.   the flight 4 hours and 40 minutes not including I assume the ground time.   NO one wore a mask as it was March 9th.   and  the passengers were almost all tracked after it was found upon arrival that 7 passengers were covid positive.    

again if airborne more than 2 would have ended up sick from 7 infected ,,, come on use your brains...     again not one person wearing a mask.   and to the experts out there they claim this proves airborne.  WTF....  

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2769383  
August 18, 2020


Assessment of SARS-CoV-2 Transmission on an International Flight and Among a Tourist Group  


 
Introduction
This case series assessed a commercial airline flight from Tel Aviv, Israel, to Frankfurt, Germany, that occurred on March 9th, 2020. Among 102 passengers on a Boeing 737-900 aircraft were 24 members of a tourist group. Starting 7 days earlier, the group had contact with a hotel manager who later received a diagnosis of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). No member of the group had received a diagnosis of COVID-19 before the flight, and no measures to prevent transmission (eg, wearing of masks) had been applied. The flight duration was 4 hours 40 minutes.

Results
Of the 24 members of the tourist group, 7 tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 RNA in a throat swab sample on arrival. Four of the 7 were symptomatic during the flight, 2 were presymptomatic, and 1 remained asymptomatic (Figure 1).

A total of 71 of the other 78 passengers (91%) who had been exposed to the group on the flight completed the interview. Serum samples were obtained from 13 of these individuals 6 to 9 weeks after the flight (Figure 2). One reported having tested positive by polymerase chain reaction 4 days after the flight. This passenger did not recall any symptoms. We detected SARS-CoV-2 IgG 7 weeks after the flight, and the PRNT result was also positive. The passenger negated contact with patients with COVID-19 before or after the flight.

Seven other passengers reported having had symptoms suggestive of COVID-19 within 14 days after the flight. One had a headache, muscle ache, and hoarseness starting 5 days after the flight. This passenger had not been tested and negated known contact with a patients with COVID-19. The passenger was in quarantine for 14 days starting 1 day after the flight. We obtained a serum sample 9 weeks after the flight and detected SARS-CoV-2 IgG. The PRNT had a borderline result.

We also obtained serum samples from 6 other symptomatic and 5 asymptomatic passengers 6 to 9 weeks after the flight. All tested negative except for 1, who had a borderline result on the SARS-CoV-2 IgG test but had a negative result on the PRNT. SARS-CoV-2 transmission during the flight was not excluded for 1 symptomatic passenger with previous contact with a patients with COVID-19 and 46 asymptomatic passengers who were not tested.



https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/odds-catching-covid-19-flight-wellness-scn/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0bqs9itXzPPCtfS8q8_SYvJk2vgRNbYhY_VCUvwwK26r8_UhtN9TIGcWM

The odds of catching Covid-19 on an airplane are slimmer than you think, scientists say


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Post by dean Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:25 am


pre publication as not peer reviewed yet.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.10.20171629v1


Risk of fomite-mediated transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in child daycares, schools, and offices: a modeling study




for the airborne believers, it blew through the air all the way from Brazil. hahaha

here is a case where it appears a decent probability has not been ruled out that believe it came on packaging that was frozen as the top possibility after doing contact tracing. they were 102 days covid cases free. the place where the new outbreak occured has frozen foods from brazil.

China has found the virus on frozen packaging too. very Low temperature the virus can remain viable for years. ya and airborners say you can not get it by contact... yet as I noted when they did a peer reviewed test of two hospitals where they put a contact coating that kills germs down it showed a drop in hospital acquired infections by 36%. And that coating does not work in seconds or a few minutes.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/imported-frozen-foods-may-have-caused-new-zealand-s-new-coronavirus-outbreak-but-it-s-very-rare-to-get-sick-from-such-packages/ar-BB17W52J?ocid=msedgntp

Imported frozen foods may have caused New Zealand's new coronavirus outbreak. But it's very rare to get sick from such packages.



https://www.newsweek.com/new-zealand-covid-outbreak-could-have-come-frozen-food-packaging-1525023

An Americold official told The New Zealand Herald it is "improbable" that the virus could have been spread at the company's facility, noting a series of safeguards that include workers wearing personal protective equipment while handling shipments.

Experts say there is no evidence to suggest the virus is transmitted through food packaging of any sort. It is not clear how long the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 can survive after being frozen, although studies of similar viruses have suggested that it could survive for up to two years.


https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-new-zealand-new-cases-auckland-lockdown-1524529
The latest new cases were reported to be within one family in South Auckland, including an individual in their 50s. They have no history of international travel. Family members have been tested and contact tracing is underway, New Zealand's Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield confirmed Tuesday.
Imported frozen foods may have caused New Zealand's new coronavirus outbreak. But it's very rare to get sick from such packages.

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Post by dean Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:43 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8583925/The-land-no-face-masks-Hollands-scientists-say-theres-no-solid-evidence-coverings-work.html  


The land with no face masks: Holland's top scientists say there's no solid evidence coverings work and warn they could even damage the fight against Covid-19  


 
As I walked around the sun-dappled streets of Amsterdam, something felt strange in this world swept by fear and pandemic. There was laughter coming from barges sliding along the famous canals, clusters of cyclists clogged the streets, shoppers dipped into chic boutiques, the barber shops seemed busy and cafes served couples chatting over coffee.

I heard many voices of tourists in bars and restaurants, while even the seedier sides of this celebrated Dutch city had people strolling through them. It took me a moment to realise what was so weird. Then it struck me. It felt like I had stepped back in time, returning to the pre-pandemic normality of a bustling city filled with human beings whose faces were not covered by cloth.

For while 120 countries in the world, including much of Europe, have ordered citizens to wear masks in public places to prevent the spread of Covid-19, the Dutch are doing things differently.

The nation's top scientists, having examined key data and research, have declared there is no firm evidence to back the use of face coverings. Indeed, they argue that wearing the wretched things may actually hamper the fight against disease.

While 120 countries in the world ordered citizens to wear masks in public places to prevent the spread of Covid-19, the Dutch are doing things differently. Pictured, people enjoying a drink in Amsterdam +3
While 120 countries in the world ordered citizens to wear masks in public places to prevent the spread of Covid-19, the Dutch are doing things differently. Pictured, people enjoying a drink in Amsterdam

'Face masks in public places are not necessary, based on all the current evidence,' said Coen Berends, spokesman for the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment. 'There is no benefit and there may even be negative impact.'

This is a bold but highly controversial stance – especially as fears grow of a second wave sweeping through Europe. Last week, Downing Street joined the global stampede to enforce face masks in public spaces such as shops, supermarkets and stations, following Scotland, Spain and France, along with Holland's neighbouring nations of Belgium and Germany.

'We think masks have a great deal of value,' said Boris Johnson. 'Scientific evaluation of face coverings and their importance in stopping aerosol droplets has been growing. People should wear them in shops.'

But the Dutch disagree – to the delight of all the citizens I spoke with in Amsterdam. 'I hate wearing them,' said Aicha Meziati, 29, in the hip fashion store Das Werk Haus. 'They are horrible. People look like they have nappies on their faces.'

Margriet, a 24-year-old sales assistant in a pop-up drink shop, said it was hard to read people's facial expressions when they wore masks. 'You make contact with people better without them and it is easier to talk to them in the store.'


Visitors to Amsterdam's red light district must now wear...

Is there REALLY a second coronavirus wave rolling across...

Holland's position is based on assessments by the Outbreak Management Team, a group of experts advising the government. It first ruled against masks in May and has re-evaluated the evidence several times, including again last week.

It believes they detract from a clear three-pronged message that has kept deaths from coronavirus down to less than half the rate in Britain: wash hands regularly, maintain social distancing of 1.5 metres and stay at home if suffering any symptoms.

The one exception outside of the medical frontline has been on public transport, where masks are mandatory on the basis it is difficult to stay apart on crowded buses, ferries and trains. 'We have seen this approach works,' said Christian Hoebe, a professor of infectious diseases in Maastricht and member of the advisory team. 'Face masks should not be seen as a magic bullet that halts the spread.

'The evidence for them is contradictory. In general, we think you must be careful with face masks because they can give a false sense of security. People think they're immune from disease or stop social distancing. That is very negative.'

Hoebe, head of infectious disease control in Zuid-Limburg, the region hit hardest when the pandemic struck Holland, pointed to a Norwegian study showing 200,000 people must wear surgical masks for one week to stop a single Covid-19 case.

Holland's top scientists, having examined key data and research, have declared there is no firm evidence to back the use of face coverings. Pictured, day trippers and tourists walk in Amsterdam on July 25 +3
Holland's top scientists, having examined key data and research, have declared there is no firm evidence to back the use of face coverings. Pictured, day trippers and tourists walk in Amsterdam on July 25

Yet few people have medical masks – in Britain they are rightly preserved for the NHS – while wearers routinely misuse or contaminate their coverings by fitting them incorrectly, failing to change them and touching their faces.

'I was in Belgium recently and saw many people putting them beneath their noses, upside down or under chins', says Hoebe. 'Others stuffed them in their pockets. The effectiveness also depends on the right fabric and the mask being worn very close to the nose.'

Studies by one membrane specialist at Eindhoven University found that while the coronavirus particles are caught by an electrostatic layer in medical masks, they can penetrate bigger pores found in cotton and even vacuum cleaner bags.

The World Health Organisation has also been sceptical, warning that 'widespread use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not yet supported by high-quality or direct scientific evidence'.

Although changing its advice in June to back the encouragement of mask wearing in some settings, the WHO lists 11 'potential harms' that range from discomfort through to self-contamination and lower compliance with more critical preventative measures.

As in some other European countries, Holland has seen an alarming recent rise in reported infections, which have almost doubled to 1,329 cases over the past two weeks, combined with marginally higher rates of hospitalisation and fatality.

Yet the cabinet's advisory team says this was driven by clusters of people infecting each other at family gatherings and parties, where they would not have worn masks regardless of any changes to rules about public spaces.

Another outbreak came from a bar in Hillegom, near Amsterdam, where the owners told customers they could sit close together, shake hands and hug since the virus was dormant. 'We know what we are doing,' they wrote on Facebook. They were quickly proved wrong, however, after 39 cases were traced to the bar. It has since been closed and the social media post removed.

Holland, a country of 17 million people, has seen 6,147 pandemic deaths after adopting what it called 'intelligent lockdown', which imposed significantly fewer restrictions than Britain and relied more on trusting citizens to behave sensibly.

Although two recent polls claim a majority backing use of face masks for indoor public spaces, I found people on Amsterdam's busy shopping streets supported their government's stand and seemed very aware of the simple rules.

Holland, a country of 17 million people, has seen 6,147 pandemic deaths after adopting what it called 'intelligent lockdown'. Pictured, tourists on the Nieuwendijk in Amsterdam on July 23 +3
Holland, a country of 17 million people, has seen 6,147 pandemic deaths after adopting what it called 'intelligent lockdown'. Pictured, tourists on the Nieuwendijk in Amsterdam on July 23

'I like it when people can decide for themselves,' said Jesus Garcia, wielding the clippers in Barbershop Jordaan filled with mask-free staff and customers. 'You would have to really educate people how to use them properly for safety.'

He said he had worn masks during a trip to Spain. 'I did not feel it was really helping since people were wearing them all wrong, putting them in their pockets, placing them under their noses. It defeats the purpose.' One customer having a trim agreed. 'I find face masks absolutely awful. They're claustrophobic and don't work,' said Mark Casey, corporate finance partner at a major accountancy firm.

Coriem Warmenhoven, serving in a flower shop, said she was glad they did not have to wear masks. 'I'm afraid it will become necessary,' she said. 'We must deal with the virus but it is best to be intelligent and give people responsibility.'

She is right to be nervous. The mayors of Amsterdam and Rotterdam, the nation's two biggest cities, have been pressing for more power to impose mask-wearing in crowded areas, which was granted last week. Amsterdam mayor Femke Halsema, alarmed by throngs of tourists and young people making parts of her city too crowded, is insisting on compulsory masks for anyone aged over 13 in the Red Light District and two popular shopping streets.

Warmenhoven told me she was going to holiday in Holland after discussing with her husband where to go. 'He said he didn't want to go anywhere abroad that you have to wear masks,' she said. This bears out the hunch of the Netherlands Board of Tourism and Conventions, which has commissioned research to find out if their country has an edge in the struggle to entice dwindling numbers of tourists.

Ben Coates, the author of Why The Dutch Are Different, who lives in central Holland, said the speed with which normal life had returned in the country was remarkable.

'When you walk around, you are hard-pressed to see much difference now,' he said.

He added that while Dutch citizens tended to trust their governments, they also had strong libertarian instincts. 'People don't like being told what to do, so they will cycle without helmets and sleep with whom they want.'

The one family I found wandering along the canals clad in face masks turned out to be holidaying Italians from near Milan. 'We have been wearing them all the time for five months, so they don't feel uncomfortable any more,' said Michaele Muller. He added that they had been astonished when they arrived in Holland. 'We drove through Switzerland, where everyone has a mask, then in Germany, where it is also mandatory. Then we crossed the border and suddenly no one was wearing them.'

Later, I came across a British accent belonging to a scientist who had just moved from Milton Keynes to a new job in the city. 'It feels very different from the UK,' said Jenny White. 'It feels much more normal here. You can almost forget about the disease.'

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Post by dean Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:43 am

ahh more evidence suggesting not airborne, mass transits around the world are open and no super spreader incidents can be attributed to them, and look at the picture no eye protection. again mass transit has closed windows in general. And as I have noted before when I was looking to design some products 7 or so years ago I could not find one single evedence that was clear that flus and viruses had ever infected massive numbers of people on a single airplane in the history of aviation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/02/nyregion/nyc-subway-coronavirus-safety.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200802&instance_id=20914&nl=the-morning&regi_id=115919677&segment_id=35036&te=1&user_id=f730a3b9531f5b2c781c5ff7996dd05c


Is the Subway Risky? It May Be Safer Than You Think
New studies in Europe and Asia suggest that riding public transportation is not a major source of transmission for the coronavirus.


Five months after the coronavirus outbreak engulfed New York City, riders are still staying away from public transportation in enormous numbers, often because they are concerned that sharing enclosed places with strangers is simply too dangerous.

But the picture emerging in major cities across the world suggests that public transportation may not be as risky as nervous New Yorkers believe.

In countries where the pandemic has ebbed, ridership has rebounded in far greater numbers than in New York City — yet there have been no notable superspreader events linked to mass transit, according to a survey of transportation agencies conducted by The New York Times.

Those findings could be evidence that subways, commuter railways and buses may not be a significant source of transmission, as long as riders wear masks and train cars or buses never become as intensely crowded as they did in pre-pandemic rush hours.

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If the risks of mass transit can be addressed, that could have sweeping implications for many large American cities, particularly New York, where one of the biggest challenges in a recovery will be coaxing riders back onto subways, buses and suburban trains — a vast system that is the backbone of the region’s economy. When the city shut down in March, over 90 percent of the subway’s 5.5 million weekday riders abandoned the system. Even now, as the city has largely contained the virus and reopened some businesses, ridership is still just 20 percent of pre-pandemic levels, adding to the financial strain of New York’s transit agency, which relies on fare revenue for 40 percent of its operating budget.

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“What we are seeing in other cities makes me optimistic,” said Toph Allen, an epidemiologist who co-wrote a report on coronavirus transmission and public transportation with the Tri-State Transportation Campaign, a transit advocacy group. “If you know that you have a transit system that is functioning in an area where there are no major outbreaks, you know transit can be safe.”

In Paris, public health authorities conducting contact tracing found that none of the 386 infection clusters identified between early May and mid-July were linked to the city’s public transportation.

A study of coronavirus clusters in April and May in Austria did not tie any to public transit. And in Tokyo, where public health authorities have aggressively traced virus clusters, none have been linked to the city’s famously crowded rail lines.

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But public health experts warn that the evidence so far should be considered with caution. Ridership in other major cities is still well below pre-pandemic levels, tracing clusters directly to public transit is difficult, the quality of ventilation systems used to filter air varies, and the level of threat depends to a high degree on how well a city has reduced its overall infection rate.

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“There are so many other factors that go into levels of risk and how you assess risk,” said Dr. Michael Reid, an assistant professor at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine and a contact-tracing expert. “They are not equal comparisons.”

In fact, state and city officials have been unable to determine whether mass transit in New York contributed to the surge in March and April that devastated the city, killing more than 20,000 people.

The outbreak has exacted an especially devastating toll on transit workers. To date, over 4,000 have tested positive and 131 workers have died from the virus — nearly 90 percent of whom worked for the division that runs the city’s subways and buses.

For much of that time, riders were not required to wear masks, and the infection rate in the city was much higher than it is today, likely making public transportation a riskier venue. (One study at M.I.T. purported to show that the subway was a superspreader early in the pandemic, but its methodology was widely disputed.)

Still, some public health experts believe the experiences of other cities offer a blueprint for how to minimize the potential for transmission on public transit systems.

Among the range of urban activities, the experts say, riding the subway is probably riskier than walking outdoors but safer than indoor dining.


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Post by dean Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:17 pm

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-69286-3#Sec2


Aerosol and surface contamination of SARS-CoV-2 observed in quarantine and isolation care



Abstract
The novel severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) originated in Wuhan, China in late 2019, and its resulting coronavirus disease, COVID-19, was declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization on March 11, 2020. The rapid global spread of COVID-19 represents perhaps the most significant public health emergency in a century. As the pandemic progressed, a continued paucity of evidence on routes of SARS-CoV-2 transmission has resulted in shifting infection prevention and control guidelines between classically-defined airborne and droplet precautions. During the initial isolation of 13 individuals with COVID-19 at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, we collected air and surface samples to examine viral shedding from isolated individuals. We detected viral contamination among all samples, supporting the use of airborne isolation precautions when caring for COVID-19 patients.


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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Empty Comparison of Face-Touching Behaviors

Post by dean Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:50 pm

here is a great one,,,     As I had mentioned I believe what was beneficial to wearing a mask is people would not touch their face as much.    but note I caution it may take away from people washing their has as much as needed.   this is a good read and not too long.    

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2768767  


July 29, 2020
Comparison of Face-Touching Behaviors Before and During the Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic  


 
Conclusions
This cross-sectional study found that mandatory mask-wearing policies increased the mask-wearing rate among the general population during the COVID-19 pandemic. Wearing either a medical or fabric mask was associated with reduced face-touching behaviors, which might prevent transmission of COVID-19 among the general population in public areas.

and note that the cloth masks are what the Japanese use as noted in the study, again to me linking it is not airborne as studies show the cloth ones are not very effective in stopping the virus yet.... huge, yet is why i say it shows it is not airborne because Japan has one of the lowest rates of infection and deaths in the world AND specially for a high density population. they are 8 per million dead vs usa 435 and UK 680.

To stop me from touching contaminated items I too wear my mask and clear face shield, so at the two main stores I go into 2-4 times a month (Sams club and Home Depot) I hold in each hand a wet napkin sized clorox brand anti microbial towelette at all times, if it dries out i have a spray bottle of isopropyl alcohol hanging from my neck i can refresh it with, and in my pocket have in a baggie a new towelette if needed.

nice feedback on the construction workers, I think the only thing to mitigate for them is a watchband that actively monitors their temperature and logs it and sends to a health department. I have read that with this data there is a noticeable temperature differential before you have a high temperature and become contagious. Maybe a days notice which is all you need.


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Post by dean Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:58 pm

My gosh are they that stupid to not realize this simple fact....  though they made no declaration, they inserted "whistle bias"

those who wore masks had a higher infection rate,,, more infections per capita.....  ya there were other factors, but again this was not suppose to happen to people wearings masks at all.    

again if airborne with then sleeping in the same room with windows shut it would NOT be 44% overall attack rate, it should have been 80-99%.    But per contact well who opened the door after a sick person did withing 20 or so minutes and who picked up the plates who passed out the food.   If buffet style did the sick person use the corn spoon and how many grabbed it after and was there enough viral load on the spoon for 1-3 people?   so many very objective questions that are obvious if one is objective.   FYI staff members were mandates to wear masks not attendees.  

man they just do not want to look objectively, again singing and yelling is their diagnosis.    

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6931e1.htm?s_cid=mm6931e1_w  


SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Infection Among Attendees of an Overnight Camp — Georgia, June 2020  





Limited data are available about transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), among youths. During June 17–20, an overnight camp in Georgia (camp A) held orientation for 138 trainees and 120 staff members; staff members remained for the first camp session, scheduled during June 21–27, and were joined by 363 campers and three senior staff members on June 21. Camp A adhered to the measures in Georgia’s Executive Order* that allowed overnight camps to operate beginning on May 31, including requiring all trainees, staff members, and campers to provide documentation of a negative viral SARS-CoV-2 test ≤12 days before arriving. Camp A adopted most† components of CDC’s Suggestions for Youth and Summer Camps§ to minimize the risk for SARS-CoV-2 introduction and transmission. Measures not implemented were cloth masks for campers and opening windows and doors for increased ventilation in buildings. Cloth masks were required for staff members. Camp attendees were cohorted by cabin and engaged in a variety of indoor and outdoor activities, including daily vigorous singing and cheering. On June 23, a teenage staff member left camp A after developing chills the previous evening. The staff member was tested and reported a positive test result for SARS-CoV-2 the following day (June 24). Camp A officials began sending campers home on June 24 and closed the camp on June 27. On June 25, the Georgia Department of Public Health (DPH) was notified and initiated an investigation. DPH recommended that all attendees be tested and self-quarantine, and isolate if they had a positive test result.



Attack rates increased with increasing length of time spent at the camp, with staff members having the highest attack rate (56%).


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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Empty train 70,000 traced

Post by dean Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:46 am

high speed trains, if airesolel you would think for long periods your breathing forward the people in the row ahead of you would be the highest risk.   But this study of a high speed train showed out of 2,568 confirmed cases that were tracked and checked 72,093 close contacts on the train.   only 234 people got sick from these 2334 confirmed sick who were on the train.    and the row in front of them had a much lower probability of getting sick.    You know the direction you are breathing.    

2.1 hours average travel time and only 3.2 percent risk of getting the c19 sitting next to the sick person in the same isle.    

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1057/5877944

 


The risk of COVID-19 transmission in train passengers: an epidemiological and modelling study  


 
Abstract
Background
Train is a common mode of public transport across the globe; however, the risk of COVID-19 transmission among individual train passengers remains unclear.

Methods
We quantified the transmission risk of COVID-19 on high-speed train passengers using data from 2,334 index patients and 72,093 close contacts who had co-travel times of 0–8 hours from 19 December 2019 through 6 March 2020 in China. We analysed the spatial and temporal distribution of COVID-19 transmission among train passengers to elucidate the associations between infection, spatial distance, and co-travel time.

Results
The attack rate in train passengers on seats within a distance of 3 rows and 5 columns of the index patient varied from 0 to 10.3% (95% confidence interval [CI] 5.3% – 19.0%), with a mean of 0.32% (95%CI 0.29% – 0.37%). Passengers in seats on the same row as the index patient had an average attack rate of 1.5% (95%CI 1.3% – 1.8%), higher than that in other rows (0.14%, 95%CI 0.11% – 0.17%), with a relative risk (RR) of 11.2 (95%CI 8.6 –14.6). Travellers adjacent to the index patient had the highest attack rate (3.5%, 95%CI 2.9% – 4.3%) of COVID-19 infections (RR 18.0, 95%CI 13.9 – 23.4) among all seats. The attack rate decreased with increasing distance, but it increased with increasing co-travel time. The attack rate increased on average by 0.15% (p = 0.005) per hour of co-travel; for passengers at adjacent seats, this increase was 1.3% (p = 0.008), the highest among all seats considered.

Conclusions
COVID-19 has a high transmission risk among train passengers, but this risk shows significant differences with co-travel time and seat location. During disease outbreaks, when travelling on public transportation in confined spaces such as trains, measures should be taken to reduce the risk of transmission, including increasing seat distance, reducing passenger density, and use of personal hygiene protection.

I believe again the study analysis is off target...that they are erroneously trying to conclude facemask even though the data is not showing this as I have outlined, and it is up to them to show me how my point is not accurate. it is contact....

the people that the infected were not breathing on in a direct way had a huge differential more infected vs the people where the particles were aimed in front of the infected for average 2 hours. They do state that the longer you are on the train the higher the risk. and yes elderly should be wearing a face shield at all times when they can not be i give it 1-3 meters from people facing them.

They also state that even after the person leaves the person who takes the infected persons seat is at risk, though much lower. if airborne the entire train would have met that same risk, they missed this analysis/understanding completely.

again ONLY 3.5% of the people sitting right next to an infected person got sick, this to me if airborne like TB would have been close to 80%...


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Post by dean Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:45 am

I believe that construction work which is outside proves that it is not airborne too. The airborne people say open windows. BS construction workers have the ultimate open windows and they ar much more at risk. Before people said joggers needed masks and now it is they do not. The reason joggers are not getting sick is because it is not airborne and the reason construction workers are is because they hand off metal, wood toots boxes of nails and on and on.

They are moving classrooms outside for better air but what they are missing is this minimized cross contact by people of surfaces. they are attributing the decrease in infection to airborne being outside. Where below again construction is IMHO as shown below has a 3 times the rate of the general work force. Granted the below may not be a perfect example but we should see more evidence of construction fields because of the cross contact of similar items if they would do a proper study.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2020/04/across-world-construction-workers-caught-coronavirus-risk-joblessness/


Across the World, Construction Workers are Caught Between Coronavirus Risk and Joblessness


Masks are distributed at some construction sites, but not many. Both knowledge about how to use these masks and especially the number available, are very insufficient. No other precautions are taken,” says Dr. Ercan Duman, a member of the Occupational Health and Workplace Medicine Commission of the Istanbul Chamber of Physicians. A recent report by the Confederation of Progressive Trade Unions of Turkey (DİSK), which includes Dev-Yapı-İş, indicates that DİSK members have tested positive for COVID-19 at a rate three times higher than the average rate per 1000 people tested among the general public in Turkey.

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Post by dean Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:00 pm

not peer reviewed so not to be used in practice where you can be sued...      they did a mathematical simulation, that gave accurate numbers with their methodology.    they assumed that masks are not proven via any reputable data or study sill and did not work in their simulations to the real world.   They listed what did work in the models to be real world.   hugging, handshakes, or airprops, or doorknobs, handrails and elevator panels.  

nice job hitting a 95% confidence level.


https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.20.20158576v1.article-info

doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.07.20.20158576

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.20.20158576v1.full.pdf
 


Assessing the relative contributions of healthcare protocols for epidemic control: an example with network transmission model for COVID-19  


 
Equally worrisome is the fact that our projections put the direct exposure of each
individual in the frontline of the factors pushing the infection progress towards the
worst-case scenarios. These results deal directly with the rate at which citizens are
exposed to the virus. The use of personal protective equipment (PPE), such as surgical
or fabric-made masks, face shields, and hand sanitizers like alcohol-based solutions and
antiseptic products has been strongly recommended to the general public (WHO, 2020).
However, this strategy creates a debate. On one hand, the willingness of people to be
protected whenever performing any outside activity, or for those who work with
essential services and are frequently at moderate to high exposure risks (Bourouiba,
2020). On the other hand, the rational use of this equipment, once the global demand
has grown nearly as exponential as the outbreak itself (Feng et al., 2020).
So far, the most effective action seems to be imposing and encouraging the
rational use of masks and the offer of hygiene items by decree or other legal
dispositions. However, although most of these policies have been adopted in several
countries (e.g. Japan, UK, Singapore, and Germany), there is not enough evidence for
the real effectiveness of wearing masks alone
or in combination with washing hands
frequently in preventing the contact- or aerosol-based transmission of SARS-CoV-2
(Feng et al., 2020; Y. Liu et al., 2020; Rothan and Byrareddy, 2020). Besides, the
incorrect use of PPE is thought to be worse than not using at all, as well as exaggerated
acquisition and overpricing of PPE could be similarly adverse. In this sense, we
particularly recommend that people should use PPE adequately, especially when there is
potential to spread or get in contact with droplets in the air. Nevertheless, we underline
that social distancing protocols seem considerably more effective.

The contact network is represented by the number of individuals (N; i.e.,
circles/nodes) as well as by their interactions (i.e., edges/links), whenever an
opportunity for transmission arises (Fig. S1). Theoretically, we assume that the
interaction between two nodes occurs whenever there is potential contact between
individuals (e.g., hugs, handshakes, or airdrops), or individuals may interact with
previously infected objects (e.g., doorknobs, handrails, and elevator panels).
Thus, these
opportunities serve as windows for the spread of the virus from an already infected
individual to a new potential host.

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Post by dean Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:56 pm

“One of the few things we know about the coronavirus with any degree of certainty is that the risk of contracting it diminishes outside — a review of 7,000 cases in China recorded only one instance of fresh-air transmission,” Ginia writes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/well/live/coronavirus-spread-outdoors-party.html?campaign_id=154&emc=edit_cb_20200717&instance_id=20421&nl=coronavirus-briefing&regi_id=115919677&segment_id=33709&te=1&user_id=f730a3b9531f5b2c781c5ff7996dd05c

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Post by dean Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:57 pm

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768396

July 13, 2020
Airborne Transmission of SARS-CoV-2
Theoretical Considerations and Available Evidence


Many of these same characteristics have previously been demonstrated for influenza and other common respiratory viruses. These data provide a useful theoretical framework for possible aerosol-based transmission for SARS-CoV-2, but what is less clear is the extent to which these characteristics lead to infections. Demonstrating that speaking and coughing can generate aerosols or that it is possible to recover viral RNA from air does not prove aerosol-based transmission; infection depends as well on the route of exposure, the size of inoculum, the duration of exposure, and host defenses.

Notwithstanding the experimental data suggesting the possibility of aerosol-based transmission, the data on infection rates and transmissions in populations during normal daily life are difficult to reconcile with long-range aerosol-based transmission. First, the reproduction number for COVID-19 before measures were taken to mitigate its spread was estimated to be about 2.5, meaning that each person with COVID-19 infected an average of 2 to 3 other people. This reproduction number is similar to influenza and quite different from that of viruses that are well known to spread via aerosols such as measles, which has a reproduction number closer to 18. Considering that most people with COVID-19 are contagious for about 1 week, a reproduction number of 2 to 3 is quite small given the large number of interactions, crowds, and personal contacts that most people have under normal circumstances within a 7-day period. Either the amount of SARS-CoV-2 required to cause infection is much larger than measles or aerosols are not the dominant mode of transmission.

Similarly, the secondary attack rate for SARS-CoV-2 is low. Case series that have evaluated close contacts of patients with confirmed COVID-19 have reported that only about 5% of contacts become infected. However, even this low attack rate is not spread evenly among close contacts but varies depending on the duration and intensity of contact. The risk is highest among household members, in whom transmission rates range between 10% and 40%.2-4 Close but less sustained contact such as sharing a meal is associated with a secondary attack rate of about 7%, whereas passing interactions among people shopping is associated with a secondary attack rate of 0.6%.4


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Post by dean Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:51 pm

two more examples 50 contacts and none infected and no masks at that time.   if airborne the would all be sick.    


• A contact investigation for an early confirmed COVID-19 case from Washington State identified 50 contacts, none of whom had evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection through 6 weeks of follow-up. All contacts were monitored daily for 14 days following exposure. Eight developed symptoms but tested negative via rRT-PCR. Thirty-eight contacts underwent voluntary enhanced contact investigation, revealing varying degrees of unprotected face-to-face interactions with the case-patient. Negative rRT-PCR and serologic follow-up collected approximately 6 weeks post exposure suggest no evidence of secondary transmission.

Chu et al. (May 29, 2020). Investigation and Serologic Follow-Up of Contacts of Early Confirmed Case-Patient with COVID-19, United States. Emerging Infectious Diseases. https://doi.org/10.3201/eid2608.201423
less than 50% of all the people wearing masks and no massive outbreak at that time and before.      in fact there was a drop in daily casesvs the days they monitored.    



• [Pre-print, not peer reviewed] An observational study of shoppers (n=5,517) entering 36 different grocery and retail locations across southeastern Wisconsin (June 3-9, 2020) found that the likelihood of an individual wearing a mask was associated with older age, being female, and shopping in an urban location. Fewer than 50% of individuals observed were wearing a mask.

Haischer et al. (July 14, 2020). Who Is Wearing a Mask Gender- Age- and Location-Related Differences during the COVID-19 Pandemic. Pre-print downloaded July 14 from https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.07.13.20152736
I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 7-1310

here they sate it cansave live by wearing masks, but they did not remove people taking other measures like washing hands and not shaking hands and so on from the mix.

COVID-19 scenarios for the United States

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.12.20151191v1.full.pdf+html


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Post by dean Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:14 am

may 2012

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15459624.2012.684582?src=recsys

Quantity and Size Distribution of Cough-Generated Aerosol Particles Produced by Influenza Patients During and After Illness

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Post by dean Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:31 am

i went and read the actual study on the seoul nightclubs that had the most extensive contact tracing and testing probably to date. 42k tests of those tracked by credit card tracing, camera, mass transit pass , cellular data. 36k of the tested who went to the night clubs it was ONLY 0.20% that got infected.

again if airborne as people claim the number of infected should have been 200 times that or in the 40% or more range from what the hospital in London data showed where 40% of the areas where people wearing masks had the virus in the air. Since these nightclubs they obviously were not wearing masks the viral load and area should have also been much higher, but using the hospital 40% ish. That is easily what a true airborne one like TB would have infected 200 times what this one yielded.. and note there again were more infected but not astronomical from the secondary infected people, 150 secondary of them where the initial infected was 96. again we know they were sick the 96 and they only spread it to R(0) less than 2 each for the 150 later with probably the most thorough contact tracing to date.


this a real world example.


We conducted large-scale testing for active case-finding among persons who had visited the Itaewon nightclubs. Patients’ cell phone numbers were checked on site before testing. Demographic data were obtained by contacting those who tested positive. Of the 41,612 total tests conducted by May 25, a total of 35,827 (86.1%) were conducted on Itaewon nightclub visitors, 5,785 (13.9%) on contacts of case-patients linked to the Itaewon nightclubs, and 1,627 (3.9%) tests conducted on anonymous persons. The prevalence of positive results for COVID-19 in nightclub visitors was 0.19% (67/35,827); in their contacts, 0.88% (51/5,785); and in anonymously tested persons, 0.06% (1/1,627).

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Post by dean Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:03 pm

some physics behind airborne,

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02786826.2020.1751055?utm_source=TrendMD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Aerosol_Science_and_Technology_TrendMD_0

What aerosol physics tells us about airborne pathogen transmission

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Post by dean Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:13 am

we know or it appears that the infected people from the bar were able to infect the majority of people they interacted with secondary

ie secondary infected may have been infected at it appears a very high rate, in fact more secondary infections 150 vs the initial sick 96 at the bar, my guess is at the 50-70% plus (that is the standard household rate) vs the numbers that got sick at the bar of 0.6%. They could or should have given us those numbers would have been a proper way to have presented the research, but they are trying to prove airborne vs what the data really can prove.

Also I would like to add to the hospital testing that the airborne was at 39 percent and we can assume people were wearing masks in all locations. So in a bar no masks the entire area should be at higher levels of the airborne in area wise and viral load and again people walking all over air flow all over and yet only 0.6% caught it. Again making it much higher probability touch/contact.

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Post by dean Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:52 pm

https://globalhealth.washington.edu/covid-19-literature-situation-report#.XwV0Dbc49so.facebook

Shrestha et al. examined SARS-CoV-2 viral load over time among 230 health care personnel with COVID-19 who did not require hospitalization. Viral loads in the upper respiratory specimens (n=528) peaked by 2 or 3 days from symptom onset and decreased rapidly thereafter, with >85% of the area under the curve occurring in the first five days.
Shrestha et al. (June 29, 2020). Distribution of Transmission Potential during Non-Severe COVID-19 Illness. Clinical Infectious Diseases. https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciaa886


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I do not believe it is airborn it is touch - Page 2 Empty Re: I do not believe it is airborn it is touch

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